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	<title>Comments on: The High Cost of Parking at Caltech</title>
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	<link>http://amateurearthling.org/2008/11/03/the-cost-of-parking-at-caltech/</link>
	<description>We&#039;re all in this together.</description>
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		<title>By: Freddy</title>
		<link>http://amateurearthling.org/2008/11/03/the-cost-of-parking-at-caltech/comment-page-1/#comment-1265</link>
		<dc:creator>Freddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 16:55:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zaneselvans.org/blog/?p=135#comment-1265</guid>
		<description>Nice article, was wondering if you would permit me to link to it in a post i am currently creating for my own site? Cheers</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice article, was wondering if you would permit me to link to it in a post i am currently creating for my own site? Cheers</p>
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		<title>By: Zane Selvans</title>
		<link>http://amateurearthling.org/2008/11/03/the-cost-of-parking-at-caltech/comment-page-1/#comment-1194</link>
		<dc:creator>Zane Selvans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:35:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zaneselvans.org/blog/?p=135#comment-1194</guid>
		<description>Alice, I certainly agree with the sentiment that you&#039;re expressing, but I don&#039;t think that continuing to heavily and invisibly subsidize parking is a good way to address it.  Part of the reason we &lt;i&gt;have&lt;/i&gt; so much population in suburban areas, and such generally poor transit as a nation is the minimum parking requirements that cities have implemented for the last half century.  We&#039;ve dug ourselves into a hole, and we have to climb out of it somehow.  If these equity issues really are serious in Sonoma county, one solution I could imagine (which would probably be politically impossible to implement) would be to charge the true cost of parking, and offer cash compensation to the poorest people to cover the apparent increase in cost.  If they felt that they really could not do without their car, and paying for parking, then they can use the money to offset the expense -- or they can keep it and find other ways to get around.

Ultimately, we&#039;re all paying for parking now, even if we don&#039;t drive, and no matter what our incomes are, and poor people are paying more of their overall income toward parking -- they just can&#039;t see it, because the cost is wrapped up inside the cost of everything else: groceries, housing, etc.

You might be interested to look at &lt;a href=&quot;http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/03/02/long-beachs-state-senator-lowenthal-takes-on-parking-requirements/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;SB 518&lt;/a&gt; which recently passed through the CA senate (still has to go to the Assembly though), and which would go a long way toward making parking prices visible across the state.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alice, I certainly agree with the sentiment that you&#8217;re expressing, but I don&#8217;t think that continuing to heavily and invisibly subsidize parking is a good way to address it.  Part of the reason we <i>have</i> so much population in suburban areas, and such generally poor transit as a nation is the minimum parking requirements that cities have implemented for the last half century.  We&#8217;ve dug ourselves into a hole, and we have to climb out of it somehow.  If these equity issues really are serious in Sonoma county, one solution I could imagine (which would probably be politically impossible to implement) would be to charge the true cost of parking, and offer cash compensation to the poorest people to cover the apparent increase in cost.  If they felt that they really could not do without their car, and paying for parking, then they can use the money to offset the expense &#8212; or they can keep it and find other ways to get around.</p>
<p>Ultimately, we&#8217;re all paying for parking now, even if we don&#8217;t drive, and no matter what our incomes are, and poor people are paying more of their overall income toward parking &#8212; they just can&#8217;t see it, because the cost is wrapped up inside the cost of everything else: groceries, housing, etc.</p>
<p>You might be interested to look at <a href="http://la.streetsblog.org/2009/03/02/long-beachs-state-senator-lowenthal-takes-on-parking-requirements/" rel="nofollow">SB 518</a> which recently passed through the CA senate (still has to go to the Assembly though), and which would go a long way toward making parking prices visible across the state.</p>
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		<title>By: Alice</title>
		<link>http://amateurearthling.org/2008/11/03/the-cost-of-parking-at-caltech/comment-page-1/#comment-1191</link>
		<dc:creator>Alice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2010 13:11:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zaneselvans.org/blog/?p=135#comment-1191</guid>
		<description>Hi, I&#039;m not at Caltech. I&#039;m in Sonoma County and just researching on the web about any objections that have cropped up regarding Shoup&#039;s ideas, before my small city has a local parking pricing meeting tomorrow. Your very helpful article came up, due to the word &quot;objection.&quot; 

It&#039;s inspiring to see so many people concerned about parking across the country and seeking solutions for driving reduction, and I appreciate the specifics that you provide for Caltech. That&#039;s a lot of subsidy per parking space. My city currently spends $5,000 per surfacing parking space construction, and $28,000 per garage space.

My big concerns with Shoup&#039;s ideas have to do with equity and social justice. In a dense urbanized area, where there&#039;s better transit and there are many people living within easy walking distance of many goods, services and job opportunities, equity issues diminish. In a more suburban or rural area, such as mine, with less transit, equity between taking the bus or biking, vs. driving, becomes a serious issue. If low-income people are disproportionately pushed out of cars and onto transit or bikes, not only can it be a real hardship, but even if there is good transit, having one economic class on transit, and another in cars creates a separate, and inherently unequal, condition. 

One other consideration for the moment: people who cannot afford the full cost of parking may not necessarily own fewer cars. They might live in a one-car household (say, a single person) and need to keep the car, or live in a multi-car household, but need the additional car(s) for errands while the other drivers have their cars at work. I&#039;ve noticed as well among bus riders in my city that among one-car couples, it is almost always the woman who takes the bus daily while her husband drives, resulting in serious equity, independence, and sometimes safety issues for her.

Shoup&#039;s ideas should be studied from the perspectives of low-income people, in various cities, to gather their various views on the cost of parking go way up.

Thanks again for your helpful post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, I&#8217;m not at Caltech. I&#8217;m in Sonoma County and just researching on the web about any objections that have cropped up regarding Shoup&#8217;s ideas, before my small city has a local parking pricing meeting tomorrow. Your very helpful article came up, due to the word &#8220;objection.&#8221; </p>
<p>It&#8217;s inspiring to see so many people concerned about parking across the country and seeking solutions for driving reduction, and I appreciate the specifics that you provide for Caltech. That&#8217;s a lot of subsidy per parking space. My city currently spends $5,000 per surfacing parking space construction, and $28,000 per garage space.</p>
<p>My big concerns with Shoup&#8217;s ideas have to do with equity and social justice. In a dense urbanized area, where there&#8217;s better transit and there are many people living within easy walking distance of many goods, services and job opportunities, equity issues diminish. In a more suburban or rural area, such as mine, with less transit, equity between taking the bus or biking, vs. driving, becomes a serious issue. If low-income people are disproportionately pushed out of cars and onto transit or bikes, not only can it be a real hardship, but even if there is good transit, having one economic class on transit, and another in cars creates a separate, and inherently unequal, condition. </p>
<p>One other consideration for the moment: people who cannot afford the full cost of parking may not necessarily own fewer cars. They might live in a one-car household (say, a single person) and need to keep the car, or live in a multi-car household, but need the additional car(s) for errands while the other drivers have their cars at work. I&#8217;ve noticed as well among bus riders in my city that among one-car couples, it is almost always the woman who takes the bus daily while her husband drives, resulting in serious equity, independence, and sometimes safety issues for her.</p>
<p>Shoup&#8217;s ideas should be studied from the perspectives of low-income people, in various cities, to gather their various views on the cost of parking go way up.</p>
<p>Thanks again for your helpful post.</p>
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		<title>By: Zane Selvans</title>
		<link>http://amateurearthling.org/2008/11/03/the-cost-of-parking-at-caltech/comment-page-1/#comment-1123</link>
		<dc:creator>Zane Selvans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:05:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zaneselvans.org/blog/?p=135#comment-1123</guid>
		<description>Also, if you look at the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.city-data.com/housing/houses-Pasadena-California.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;census data for Pasadena&lt;/a&gt;, it&#039;s clear that we do actually have a significant number of low-income people in town.  The custodian in our building lives in Northwest Pasadena, which is certainly accessible to Caltech without a car (it&#039;s closer than JPL, and I commuted up there by bike).  I suspect that there are some people up there who currently drive to Burbank or El Monte for similar jobs, as well as others who drive to Pasadena from East LA or Lincoln Heights (and I talked to another custodian who sometimes bikes from Lincoln Heights -- timewise it&#039;s certainly no further away by bike than many other locations that people drive from are by car).  And as I suggested above, the people who would find the full cost of parking the most burdensome are also the people who would benefit proportionately the most from avoiding the costs associated with owning and using a car.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, if you look at the <a href="http://www.city-data.com/housing/houses-Pasadena-California.html" rel="nofollow">census data for Pasadena</a>, it&#8217;s clear that we do actually have a significant number of low-income people in town.  The custodian in our building lives in Northwest Pasadena, which is certainly accessible to Caltech without a car (it&#8217;s closer than JPL, and I commuted up there by bike).  I suspect that there are some people up there who currently drive to Burbank or El Monte for similar jobs, as well as others who drive to Pasadena from East LA or Lincoln Heights (and I talked to another custodian who sometimes bikes from Lincoln Heights &#8212; timewise it&#8217;s certainly no further away by bike than many other locations that people drive from are by car).  And as I suggested above, the people who would find the full cost of parking the most burdensome are also the people who would benefit proportionately the most from avoiding the costs associated with owning and using a car.</p>
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		<title>By: Michelle W</title>
		<link>http://amateurearthling.org/2008/11/03/the-cost-of-parking-at-caltech/comment-page-1/#comment-1122</link>
		<dc:creator>Michelle W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 17:50:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zaneselvans.org/blog/?p=135#comment-1122</guid>
		<description>Mike, not that the solutions are without pain, but I think the idea of making parkers shoulder more of the true cost of parking (and driving in general) is to balance that part of the equation.  Nothing guarantees that one can live in a single family, 3-bed home and drive a car, except the American expectations.  There are a number of potential solutions that may manifest over time if everyone paid for their parking.  Developers may develop more affordable, walkable communities near places people commute to now, given the right pressure.  The bus system may improve if consumer demand was there, and interested parties worked to influence the system for the better.  People may chose or need to live in less individualistic ways - with roommates, or in smaller houses (god forbid the children have to share a bedroom).  Less money may be able to be spent on consumer goods or pre-packaged foods and meals out, to allow for the parking fund or the more expensive housing fund.  People may find out that they can bike 10 miles or more to work, and be much healthier for it.  Or bike and bus.  Where there is a will, there is a way.  Subsidized parking is probably not the best way.  Sorry if I sound like a smart ass, I know there would be real hardship, and expect many staff are dealing the best they can and already living in compromise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike, not that the solutions are without pain, but I think the idea of making parkers shoulder more of the true cost of parking (and driving in general) is to balance that part of the equation.  Nothing guarantees that one can live in a single family, 3-bed home and drive a car, except the American expectations.  There are a number of potential solutions that may manifest over time if everyone paid for their parking.  Developers may develop more affordable, walkable communities near places people commute to now, given the right pressure.  The bus system may improve if consumer demand was there, and interested parties worked to influence the system for the better.  People may chose or need to live in less individualistic ways &#8211; with roommates, or in smaller houses (god forbid the children have to share a bedroom).  Less money may be able to be spent on consumer goods or pre-packaged foods and meals out, to allow for the parking fund or the more expensive housing fund.  People may find out that they can bike 10 miles or more to work, and be much healthier for it.  Or bike and bus.  Where there is a will, there is a way.  Subsidized parking is probably not the best way.  Sorry if I sound like a smart ass, I know there would be real hardship, and expect many staff are dealing the best they can and already living in compromise.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Doug</title>
		<link>http://amateurearthling.org/2008/11/03/the-cost-of-parking-at-caltech/comment-page-1/#comment-1120</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Doug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 01:28:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zaneselvans.org/blog/?p=135#comment-1120</guid>
		<description>There are certainly some interesting information here
from a purely theoretical point of view, and it seems that you understand that it is the commutting staff would be most affected 
by placing the real costs on them. However, you seem to believe 
by raising the parking costs to their actual values you
could discourage those staff with long commutes and encourage
positions for local staff. This assumes that there is a significant population of suitable staff that could fill these positions. There seems to be no real basis for such a belief. 
In general the staff that work at Caltech do not live within practical walking or cycling distance because even in today&#039;s housing market they cannot afford to do so. Most would love the
idea of living with Pasadena rather than communting. If you believe that those staff could take buses from slghtly more distant areas it would seem that you are completely unfamilar with the sad joke that passes for public transportation within LA and the limits of limited transport systems such as ARTS.

Some relief to Caltech&#039;s past parking problems could have been obtained by removing the impractical 2hr parking restrictions, rather than more strickly enforcing them. Additionally, if 
employees were allowed to park in the San Marino streets adjacent to Caltech (that are totally barren) additional parking bulidings would not have been required. Using these streets would have made better use of miles of empty roads. Indeed, opening these streets would have actually encouraged people to walk a little further.
The reasons parking restrictions near the San Marino mansions is clear to all and clearly has very little to do with public safetly or congestion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are certainly some interesting information here<br />
from a purely theoretical point of view, and it seems that you understand that it is the commutting staff would be most affected<br />
by placing the real costs on them. However, you seem to believe<br />
by raising the parking costs to their actual values you<br />
could discourage those staff with long commutes and encourage<br />
positions for local staff. This assumes that there is a significant population of suitable staff that could fill these positions. There seems to be no real basis for such a belief.<br />
In general the staff that work at Caltech do not live within practical walking or cycling distance because even in today&#8217;s housing market they cannot afford to do so. Most would love the<br />
idea of living with Pasadena rather than communting. If you believe that those staff could take buses from slghtly more distant areas it would seem that you are completely unfamilar with the sad joke that passes for public transportation within LA and the limits of limited transport systems such as ARTS.</p>
<p>Some relief to Caltech&#8217;s past parking problems could have been obtained by removing the impractical 2hr parking restrictions, rather than more strickly enforcing them. Additionally, if<br />
employees were allowed to park in the San Marino streets adjacent to Caltech (that are totally barren) additional parking bulidings would not have been required. Using these streets would have made better use of miles of empty roads. Indeed, opening these streets would have actually encouraged people to walk a little further.<br />
The reasons parking restrictions near the San Marino mansions is clear to all and clearly has very little to do with public safetly or congestion.</p>
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		<title>By: Zane Selvans</title>
		<link>http://amateurearthling.org/2008/11/03/the-cost-of-parking-at-caltech/comment-page-1/#comment-602</link>
		<dc:creator>Zane Selvans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 May 2009 21:18:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zaneselvans.org/blog/?p=135#comment-602</guid>
		<description>By &quot;no net new commute trips&quot;, I assume you mean car-commute trips.  Interestingly, it looks like Stanford was &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.paloaltoonline.com/news_features/stanford_development/hennessy.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;none too pleased&lt;/a&gt; about the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.paloaltoonline.com/news_features/stanford_development/statement.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;proposed restrictions&lt;/a&gt;, which I think is odd, given the large costs which providing for extensive automotive use entails.  But so much of public statements and meetings is just politicking.  I could imagine the administration being publicly upset, while being privately happy, in order to avoid backlash from their academic community, who probably wanted plenty of new parking structures...  Now if only we could get some interplay like that going on in Pasadena!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By &#8220;no net new commute trips&#8221;, I assume you mean car-commute trips.  Interestingly, it looks like Stanford was <a href="http://www.paloaltoonline.com/news_features/stanford_development/hennessy.php" rel="nofollow">none too pleased</a> about the <a href="http://www.paloaltoonline.com/news_features/stanford_development/statement.php" rel="nofollow">proposed restrictions</a>, which I think is odd, given the large costs which providing for extensive automotive use entails.  But so much of public statements and meetings is just politicking.  I could imagine the administration being publicly upset, while being privately happy, in order to avoid backlash from their academic community, who probably wanted plenty of new parking structures&#8230;  Now if only we could get some interplay like that going on in Pasadena!</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Jacobsen</title>
		<link>http://amateurearthling.org/2008/11/03/the-cost-of-parking-at-caltech/comment-page-1/#comment-600</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Jacobsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 May 2009 18:59:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zaneselvans.org/blog/?p=135#comment-600</guid>
		<description>In contrast to the Pasadena making an ordinance of the Caltech Master Plan, which locks in driving habits of 1986, Stanford&#039; General Use Permit from Santa Clara County (2000) mandates &quot;no net new commute trips.&quot;

In response, Stanford provides incentives for their students, faculty and staff to get to and from work without their cars. The percentage that drive to work alone has dropped from 72 percent in 2002 to 52 percent in 2007.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In contrast to the Pasadena making an ordinance of the Caltech Master Plan, which locks in driving habits of 1986, Stanford&#8217; General Use Permit from Santa Clara County (2000) mandates &#8220;no net new commute trips.&#8221;</p>
<p>In response, Stanford provides incentives for their students, faculty and staff to get to and from work without their cars. The percentage that drive to work alone has dropped from 72 percent in 2002 to 52 percent in 2007.</p>
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		<title>By: Zane Selvans</title>
		<link>http://amateurearthling.org/2008/11/03/the-cost-of-parking-at-caltech/comment-page-1/#comment-385</link>
		<dc:creator>Zane Selvans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 07:57:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zaneselvans.org/blog/?p=135#comment-385</guid>
		<description>The grad students certainly made a big stink when they first started charging.  People just feel entitled because the costs are hidden.  Facilities actually hates providing parking - they know just how expensive it is - but unfortunately, there&#039;s not a lot we (or anybody else) can do about it, so long as cities require it to be provided, and citizens are willing to force their politicians to socialize the costs.  I always get weirded out by which things America chooses to socialize. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The grad students certainly made a big stink when they first started charging.  People just feel entitled because the costs are hidden.  Facilities actually hates providing parking &#8211; they know just how expensive it is &#8211; but unfortunately, there&#039;s not a lot we (or anybody else) can do about it, so long as cities require it to be provided, and citizens are willing to force their politicians to socialize the costs.  I always get weirded out by which things America chooses to socialize.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Linton</title>
		<link>http://amateurearthling.org/2008/11/03/the-cost-of-parking-at-caltech/comment-page-1/#comment-384</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Linton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 06:59:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zaneselvans.org/blog/?p=135#comment-384</guid>
		<description>Great post!  It&#039;s interesting to me to understand the differences in subsidies as you&#039;ve clarified them.  It&#039;s  generally considered very progressive just to charge at all for parking.But clearly in this example, it costs the employer more than $50/month to provide the space... even though I bet Caltech gets complaints from folks who don&#039;t want to pay that much. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post!  It&#039;s interesting to me to understand the differences in subsidies as you&#039;ve clarified them.  It&#039;s  generally considered very progressive just to charge at all for parking.But clearly in this example, it costs the employer more than $50/month to provide the space&#8230; even though I bet Caltech gets complaints from folks who don&#039;t want to pay that much.</p>
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