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	<title>Comments on: A Dumpster Diving Tally</title>
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	<link>http://amateurearthling.org/2009/07/27/a-dumpster-diving-tally/</link>
	<description>We&#039;re all in this together.</description>
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		<title>By: Dirt: The Erosion of Civilizations by David Montgomery &#124; Amateur Earthling</title>
		<link>http://amateurearthling.org/2009/07/27/a-dumpster-diving-tally/comment-page-1/#comment-1411</link>
		<dc:creator>Dirt: The Erosion of Civilizations by David Montgomery &#124; Amateur Earthling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 May 2010 21:56:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://amateurearthling.org/?p=1468#comment-1411</guid>
		<description>[...] we are far beyond Earth&#8217;s sustainable food production.  Since in the US we currently throw away half of our food anyway, and a lot of that is unnecessarily produced meat anyway, there&#8217;s a lot of slack to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] we are far beyond Earth&#8217;s sustainable food production.  Since in the US we currently throw away half of our food anyway, and a lot of that is unnecessarily produced meat anyway, there&#8217;s a lot of slack to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The limits of personal action &#124; Amateur Earthling</title>
		<link>http://amateurearthling.org/2009/07/27/a-dumpster-diving-tally/comment-page-1/#comment-1108</link>
		<dc:creator>The limits of personal action &#124; Amateur Earthling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Feb 2010 01:44:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://amateurearthling.org/?p=1468#comment-1108</guid>
		<description>[...] certainly enjoy eating an omnivorous diet (with the animal products coming as much as possible from discarded food).  I&#8217;m just saying that I&#8217;m starting to feel a little limited.  To go much further [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] certainly enjoy eating an omnivorous diet (with the animal products coming as much as possible from discarded food).  I&#8217;m just saying that I&#8217;m starting to feel a little limited.  To go much further [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Karen</title>
		<link>http://amateurearthling.org/2009/07/27/a-dumpster-diving-tally/comment-page-1/#comment-799</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 23:55:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://amateurearthling.org/?p=1468#comment-799</guid>
		<description>I know a church in Fresno that gets Trader Joe&#039;s near expiration date stuff and distributes it. Someone I know well gets some of the stuff from them and freezes it (fish, bread, etc.) Maybe it&#039;s a regional thing? I also think it is disgusting and just plain silly that they throw all that stuff out when there are hungry people in this country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know a church in Fresno that gets Trader Joe&#8217;s near expiration date stuff and distributes it. Someone I know well gets some of the stuff from them and freezes it (fish, bread, etc.) Maybe it&#8217;s a regional thing? I also think it is disgusting and just plain silly that they throw all that stuff out when there are hungry people in this country.</p>
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		<title>By: Zane Selvans</title>
		<link>http://amateurearthling.org/2009/07/27/a-dumpster-diving-tally/comment-page-1/#comment-767</link>
		<dc:creator>Zane Selvans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2009 04:07:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://amateurearthling.org/?p=1468#comment-767</guid>
		<description>At TJ&#039;s, 10pm seems to be a good time.  Really what you want to avoid is unnecessary interaction with the employees.  TJ&#039;s closes at 9pm, and by 10pm, they&#039;ve generally cleared the stock that&#039;s going to be cleared for the night.  A lot of it is still cold, or even frozen, by the time we get our hands on it.

Regarding donation, yes, it&#039;s legal issues (or so I&#039;m told), although some chains, including Whole Foods, have reportedly made some arrangements to productively divert their surplus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At TJ&#8217;s, 10pm seems to be a good time.  Really what you want to avoid is unnecessary interaction with the employees.  TJ&#8217;s closes at 9pm, and by 10pm, they&#8217;ve generally cleared the stock that&#8217;s going to be cleared for the night.  A lot of it is still cold, or even frozen, by the time we get our hands on it.</p>
<p>Regarding donation, yes, it&#8217;s legal issues (or so I&#8217;m told), although some chains, including Whole Foods, have reportedly made some arrangements to productively divert their surplus.</p>
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		<title>By: Kurt</title>
		<link>http://amateurearthling.org/2009/07/27/a-dumpster-diving-tally/comment-page-1/#comment-766</link>
		<dc:creator>Kurt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2009 02:07:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://amateurearthling.org/?p=1468#comment-766</guid>
		<description>What time of night do you do this?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What time of night do you do this?</p>
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		<title>By: Kurt</title>
		<link>http://amateurearthling.org/2009/07/27/a-dumpster-diving-tally/comment-page-1/#comment-765</link>
		<dc:creator>Kurt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2009 02:05:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://amateurearthling.org/?p=1468#comment-765</guid>
		<description>Why not give it away to a local shelter?  I&#039;m guessing liability issues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why not give it away to a local shelter?  I&#8217;m guessing liability issues.</p>
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		<title>By: Zane Selvans</title>
		<link>http://amateurearthling.org/2009/07/27/a-dumpster-diving-tally/comment-page-1/#comment-749</link>
		<dc:creator>Zane Selvans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 21:14:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://amateurearthling.org/?p=1468#comment-749</guid>
		<description>We&#039;ll have to make a point of visiting some more mainstream grocery stores just to test whether Trader Joe&#039;s behavior is really unusual.  I really suspect it&#039;s not, but let&#039;s see if we can get some evidence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#8217;ll have to make a point of visiting some more mainstream grocery stores just to test whether Trader Joe&#8217;s behavior is really unusual.  I really suspect it&#8217;s not, but let&#8217;s see if we can get some evidence.</p>
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		<title>By: Leslie</title>
		<link>http://amateurearthling.org/2009/07/27/a-dumpster-diving-tally/comment-page-1/#comment-748</link>
		<dc:creator>Leslie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 20:21:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://amateurearthling.org/?p=1468#comment-748</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s one thing to advertise chicken thighs for .88/lb. and cantaloupes for .33 each to get people in the stores but I don&#039;t see anything dishonest about putting a half price sticker on packages of salmon that are on their way to the dumpster. It probably takes less labor to slap a sticker on them than it does to  haul them into the alley. 

And here in Fresno not everything is sold by barcode...they sell individual apples and bananas :/

If we&#039;re talking dishonesty I think TJs throwing out food is even more dishonest then advertising cantaloupes for .33 because they do so many things so well, like paying a &quot;living wage&quot;, having lots of organics, encouraging reusable bags with their weekly $25 drawings, NOT advertising, carrying fair trade chocolate and coffee, as well as catering to people with special dietary needs like dairy and gluten free without the price gouging like Whole Foods. To me it feels like more of a betrayal. I dunno, could easily become another cause to join in an effort to save the world :P</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s one thing to advertise chicken thighs for .88/lb. and cantaloupes for .33 each to get people in the stores but I don&#8217;t see anything dishonest about putting a half price sticker on packages of salmon that are on their way to the dumpster. It probably takes less labor to slap a sticker on them than it does to  haul them into the alley. </p>
<p>And here in Fresno not everything is sold by barcode&#8230;they sell individual apples and bananas :/</p>
<p>If we&#8217;re talking dishonesty I think TJs throwing out food is even more dishonest then advertising cantaloupes for .33 because they do so many things so well, like paying a &#8220;living wage&#8221;, having lots of organics, encouraging reusable bags with their weekly $25 drawings, NOT advertising, carrying fair trade chocolate and coffee, as well as catering to people with special dietary needs like dairy and gluten free without the price gouging like Whole Foods. To me it feels like more of a betrayal. I dunno, could easily become another cause to join in an effort to save the world <img src='http://amateurearthling.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Zane Selvans</title>
		<link>http://amateurearthling.org/2009/07/27/a-dumpster-diving-tally/comment-page-1/#comment-747</link>
		<dc:creator>Zane Selvans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 19:04:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://amateurearthling.org/?p=1468#comment-747</guid>
		<description>Yes, Trader Joe&#039;s has made a very explicit decision not to have sales, or to reduce prices to clear stock.  They&#039;ve made this decision to differentiate themselves from the chain supermarkets, which use sales and specials mostly as marketing gimmicks to get you into the store.  They publicize the few products that are on sale widely (they&#039;re called &quot;loss leaders&quot;, because they sell these items at a sometimes significant loss), and once they&#039;ve got you in the store, assume that you&#039;ll also do your other shopping there, and buy a bunch of other things that are overpriced.  It turns out this is a good assumption in general, and a profitable way to do business.  It&#039;s also kind of dishonest, and Trader Joe&#039;s is trying to project a &quot;plain dealing&quot; image.

Trader Joe&#039;s business model also involves selling absolutely everything by the piece, or by bar-code.  There are no bulk or by-weight items, and it&#039;s not (financially) worth paying for the labor that would be required to re-package the apricots, when only one is going bad (they all get tossed) or to sort and re-package the eggs when just one is tossed (they all get tossed... tens of dozens every day, at every store: and this at least, I suspect is true of virtually all supermarkets).  There&#039;s a terrible thing to realize here, which is that what we consider a barely &quot;living wage&quot; in the US, (i.e. the $11/hr plus modest benefits of a Trader Joe&#039;s employee, which translates to something like $20k/yr after taxes) is at some level economically incompatible with the kind of material resource conservation that we environmentalists say we&#039;d like to see.  For it to make sense to sort the apricots and eggs, they either need to cost much more (increasing the food portion of the cost of living), or the labor has to be cheaper (as it likely is at a low-end chain grocery store or Super WalMart: minimum wage with absolutely no benefits whatsoever, where they do more sorting.)  At least, under the current economic arrangement we have.  Maybe there&#039;s some other way to arrange things, but it&#039;s not clear to me what that arrangement would look like.

I suspect that there are at least 2 tiers of grocery stores.  In the upper (fancier) tier, it&#039;s not acceptable to have cosmetically imperfect, or otherwise borderline produce laying around, but in the lower tiers, it is.  When we do shop, we shop in lower tier stores (small ethnic groceries) and a lot of why things are cheaper there is because they&#039;re often cosmetically imperfect.  They certainly do lower prices to clear excess stock.  This is how one imagines capitalism is supposed to work, no?

I&#039;d also be very skeptical about Save Mart&#039;s claim that they compost their excess produce.  Skeptical enough to go take a late-night look in their bins.  It would be absolutely great if they&#039;re doing it, but I suspect it&#039;s greenwashing BS.  Watch &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRLKjwyBAU4&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this news clip from Australia&lt;/a&gt; if you haven&#039;t already to see a couple of examples of outright lies from supermarket chains about throwing out good food (let alone what they do with actually spoiled food).  The basic problem (as laid out by one of the interviewees) is that the actual cost of the produce is a relatively small proportion of their cost of doing business, disposal is nearly free, and there isn&#039;t a well developed market, or supply chain, in place for dealing with collecting all that organic matter and turning it into valuable compost at a scale that makes commercial sense.

The &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.growingpower.org/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Growing Power urban farm&lt;/a&gt; is another wonderful example of someone diverting this waste stream and making something valuable out of it.  But even at the considerable scale that they&#039;re operating at, it&#039;s still not really a profit-making venture.  It&#039;s self sufficient, and they get a lot of quasi-volunteer labor, and free nutrient inputs, and their mission is more about bringing high-quality fresh foods to the inner city than it is about being a successful commercial venture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Trader Joe&#8217;s has made a very explicit decision not to have sales, or to reduce prices to clear stock.  They&#8217;ve made this decision to differentiate themselves from the chain supermarkets, which use sales and specials mostly as marketing gimmicks to get you into the store.  They publicize the few products that are on sale widely (they&#8217;re called &#8220;loss leaders&#8221;, because they sell these items at a sometimes significant loss), and once they&#8217;ve got you in the store, assume that you&#8217;ll also do your other shopping there, and buy a bunch of other things that are overpriced.  It turns out this is a good assumption in general, and a profitable way to do business.  It&#8217;s also kind of dishonest, and Trader Joe&#8217;s is trying to project a &#8220;plain dealing&#8221; image.</p>
<p>Trader Joe&#8217;s business model also involves selling absolutely everything by the piece, or by bar-code.  There are no bulk or by-weight items, and it&#8217;s not (financially) worth paying for the labor that would be required to re-package the apricots, when only one is going bad (they all get tossed) or to sort and re-package the eggs when just one is tossed (they all get tossed&#8230; tens of dozens every day, at every store: and this at least, I suspect is true of virtually all supermarkets).  There&#8217;s a terrible thing to realize here, which is that what we consider a barely &#8220;living wage&#8221; in the US, (i.e. the $11/hr plus modest benefits of a Trader Joe&#8217;s employee, which translates to something like $20k/yr after taxes) is at some level economically incompatible with the kind of material resource conservation that we environmentalists say we&#8217;d like to see.  For it to make sense to sort the apricots and eggs, they either need to cost much more (increasing the food portion of the cost of living), or the labor has to be cheaper (as it likely is at a low-end chain grocery store or Super WalMart: minimum wage with absolutely no benefits whatsoever, where they do more sorting.)  At least, under the current economic arrangement we have.  Maybe there&#8217;s some other way to arrange things, but it&#8217;s not clear to me what that arrangement would look like.</p>
<p>I suspect that there are at least 2 tiers of grocery stores.  In the upper (fancier) tier, it&#8217;s not acceptable to have cosmetically imperfect, or otherwise borderline produce laying around, but in the lower tiers, it is.  When we do shop, we shop in lower tier stores (small ethnic groceries) and a lot of why things are cheaper there is because they&#8217;re often cosmetically imperfect.  They certainly do lower prices to clear excess stock.  This is how one imagines capitalism is supposed to work, no?</p>
<p>I&#8217;d also be very skeptical about Save Mart&#8217;s claim that they compost their excess produce.  Skeptical enough to go take a late-night look in their bins.  It would be absolutely great if they&#8217;re doing it, but I suspect it&#8217;s greenwashing BS.  Watch <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRLKjwyBAU4" rel="nofollow">this news clip from Australia</a> if you haven&#8217;t already to see a couple of examples of outright lies from supermarket chains about throwing out good food (let alone what they do with actually spoiled food).  The basic problem (as laid out by one of the interviewees) is that the actual cost of the produce is a relatively small proportion of their cost of doing business, disposal is nearly free, and there isn&#8217;t a well developed market, or supply chain, in place for dealing with collecting all that organic matter and turning it into valuable compost at a scale that makes commercial sense.</p>
<p>The <a href="http://www.growingpower.org/" rel="nofollow">Growing Power urban farm</a> is another wonderful example of someone diverting this waste stream and making something valuable out of it.  But even at the considerable scale that they&#8217;re operating at, it&#8217;s still not really a profit-making venture.  It&#8217;s self sufficient, and they get a lot of quasi-volunteer labor, and free nutrient inputs, and their mission is more about bringing high-quality fresh foods to the inner city than it is about being a successful commercial venture.</p>
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		<title>By: Leslie</title>
		<link>http://amateurearthling.org/2009/07/27/a-dumpster-diving-tally/comment-page-1/#comment-746</link>
		<dc:creator>Leslie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 03:49:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://amateurearthling.org/?p=1468#comment-746</guid>
		<description>OK, so here&#039;s my thing about TJ&#039;s as opposed to the other markets I regularly shop at. I have NEVER seen anything on &quot;sale&quot; or &quot;reduced for quick sale&quot; at TJ&#039;s. Seems like if they were to take notice in advance of what food was going to be on its way to the dumpster they could reduce it and sell it and not waste as much. The Save Marts in Fresno actually take older produce and package it up and sell it cheap, which is really good if you&#039;re looking for brown bananas for banana bread :) And Karen was telling me that the produce they don&#039;t sell gets composted. You can actually buy small bags of their fruit and vegetable compost at the store. When Winco has meat and packaged goods getting close to their &quot;sell by&quot; date they put big red stickers for dollars off. Or they pile the products in a shopping basket by the front of the store at half off. So I disagree that this is something all big chains do. I find it particularly disappointing that TJ&#039;s, home of the pre-packaged plastic wrapped apricots, is so wateful :( But I am certainly happy you are having yummy smoothies and salmon!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, so here&#8217;s my thing about TJ&#8217;s as opposed to the other markets I regularly shop at. I have NEVER seen anything on &#8220;sale&#8221; or &#8220;reduced for quick sale&#8221; at TJ&#8217;s. Seems like if they were to take notice in advance of what food was going to be on its way to the dumpster they could reduce it and sell it and not waste as much. The Save Marts in Fresno actually take older produce and package it up and sell it cheap, which is really good if you&#8217;re looking for brown bananas for banana bread <img src='http://amateurearthling.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  And Karen was telling me that the produce they don&#8217;t sell gets composted. You can actually buy small bags of their fruit and vegetable compost at the store. When Winco has meat and packaged goods getting close to their &#8220;sell by&#8221; date they put big red stickers for dollars off. Or they pile the products in a shopping basket by the front of the store at half off. So I disagree that this is something all big chains do. I find it particularly disappointing that TJ&#8217;s, home of the pre-packaged plastic wrapped apricots, is so wateful <img src='http://amateurearthling.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' />  But I am certainly happy you are having yummy smoothies and salmon!</p>
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